cs_spent - early version if anyone wants to offer opinions

[Sputnik]

I'd be interested in any comments anyone might have on this very rough version of my latest map, please

Especially on layout (although note that there'll be much more cover and obstacles added, this is just the basic architecture), since I want to try and get this right this time - create a decentish CS arena that is reasonably interesting as well. Hossies will go where the big conference table is, and in the next-but-one room to this, by the half-open, texture-unaligned double doors. T spawn at the conference table and CT spawn /hossie rescue in the room with water (which I know needs work!)

And on textures perhaps, which are all custom (except for the doors, which I stole). Some are pretty roughly slapped on though.

But before I add more detail, i would be interested to hear any comments while I can happily change things around

The idea, by the way, was to do *my* cs_office (my fave map, not that I copy ideas ), and something similar to as_officestorm and de_slit but better looking and less laggy respectively. And something smallish and simple. It's also going to have a Part 2 released with it, an es_ map in which CTs have to get back out again, which will be bigger

Click:


If anyone wants to have a quick look t'would be appreciated It's just the layout and basic look, remember

[Bullet]

yeah ill be happy to test it out

(btw, u know that es_maps objectives are the T's have to get out not CT's? or are u jst gonna say that the T's ARE the CT's...theyve jst changed clothes? )

[Sputnik]

Oh crap, I forgot that!

Umm, time for a rethink AS it'll have to be then

[Bullet]

Oh crap, I forgot that!

Umm, time for a rethink AS it'll have to be then

LOL

i thought u knew.....when i saw ur sig i thought :

"ahhh so the T's take hostages....the CT's nick em back then surround the T's....and the T's have to flee for their life....cunning plan!!!!"

lol obviously u were thinking along a different train of thought.....surely the CT's would have already made it out when they took the hostages out ne ways

btw, whats the criteria for a win on an ES map....i assume ALL the T's dont have to escape as that wud be 2 hard (altho es maps generally have guns lying around the T spawn, and the T's cant buy anything...so sure they get colts round 1.....but they cant but shite), so is it half? cos 1 escapee would be 2 easy.....

[Sputnik]

I can't remember what proportion of Ts have to escape, but it's not all of them.

Yeah I'll give the "plot" a rethink sometime, it will probably still be an ES map with the Ts escaping.

"Later that day.... more terrorists were found hiding in the ceiling. Police surround the building/floor and set up blockades and send in CTs to weed them out " That'll do

[Bullet]

lol, hiding in the cieling

always wanted to do es_alcatraz myself.....but after playing de_rock i realised jst how much effort went into it and though....fck me i cant be bothered doing all that

[BournE]

Had a quick blast around your map sput, looks good. The size seems spot on but it is difficult to gauge when your the only one running around.

It is hard to comment on things when I know it is not finished, but i like the layout. The only thing I can really say is (as you use cs_office as the inspiration) the thing that make cs_office really good are the many ways into the building, and the fact you have to break windows on many of them, so gives positions away etc.. Think it may be too easy for the T's to defend because they don't have to watch their back, maybe making a way into the conference rooms via the windows would help

as ever I look forward to playing it when it is finished

[Sputnik]

always wanted to do es_alcatraz myself.....but after playing de_rock i realised jst how much effort went into it and though....fck me i cant be bothered doing all that

I had the same idea too Then de_rock came out and there was no point thinking about it Although I'm not a huge fan of the map tbh Too much of a recreation to be something endlessly playable.

[Sputnik]

Had a quick blast around your map sput, looks good. The size seems spot on but it is difficult to gauge when your the only one running around.

It is hard to comment on things when I know it is not finished, but i like the layout. The only thing I can really say is (as you use cs_office as the inspiration) the thing that make cs_office really good are the many ways into the building, and the fact you have to break windows on many of them, so gives positions away etc.. Think it may be too easy for the T's to defend because they don't have to watch their back, maybe making a way into the conference rooms via the windows would help

as ever I look forward to playing it when it is finished

I think you're dead right, thanks. I'll work on adding routes, although I want to try and keep as few main routes as possible (why de_dust's so great - it's actually a very similar layout, if you look at it right ) But an outside route to the conference room does make total sense (or maybe an "upper floor" route, I dunno Will have a think and fiddle ) Cheers.

Anyone else want to have a look?

[Wintermute]

As always Sput, the first thing that strikes me is it looks terrific.
- obviously its sparse and some textures are misaligned, but the textures themselves and the lighting is great.
I find it very hard to get general architecture and lighting to look subtle and 'right' ...damn you
(so much so, my next map is currently heading in completely the other direction ).

I like the general layout and size of the map, there appear to be a number of ways to go, and similarly the terrorists have a number of viewpoints to monitor.

The slight separation of hostages should lead to choices from both sides; and when thinned down a team may well have to defend or try to rescue only one group. But they're still close enough to make the overall area defendable as a whole by a reasonable number of organised Ts (that's another lesson I've learned ).

FWIW, a couple of ideas/suggestions from a quick run-about:

- An alternative way in to the hostages sounds good, although there are already quite a few entry points for the Ts to cover, so the alternative may be best as a 'high risk' possibility (e.g. exiting a vent, coming in through the ceiling, or maybe dropping onto a balcony outside one of the windows, although the latter would probably involve more structural change).

- Maybe vary the lighting a little more down the corridors, etc, so some areas offer more shadow to aid stealth. Maybe have one of the corridors looking like its's closed for cleaning/maintenance - complete with puddles on the floor and mal/non-functioning lighting.

- Although it may go against the subtlety of the design, making the various areas of the map easily identifiable would greatly aid gameplay. e.g. "I'm at the front-desk/computer-room/store-room/conference-room" - maybe use office-style door-plaques or signs.
I feel this often helps, rather than trying to describe "the corridor on the left-side" (the left side often being objective).

I'm sure you've considered most of this and the map's obviously incomplete, so just some suggestions based on first impressions.
Hope they're of some use.

Look forward to the next version

[Bullet]

r the chairs (and some tables) meant to be func_illusionary?? cos i can walk right thru em...

other than that looks good, nice layout

[Sputnik]

Thanks Winter, some very useful comments

Looking forward to your next map btw

Bullet - they're models (early ones ), so no clipping is done on them as they're just point entities that display an external mdl file. They'll have clip brushes round them in the actual release, don't worry And cheers

[Bullet]

Bullet - they're models (early ones ), so no clipping is done on them as they're just point entities that display an external mdl file. They'll have clip brushes round them in the actual release, don't worry And cheers

oooooooooo, nice models then, look better than most of the things i draw with polys make em urself? i still crappy at making models....all ive managed so far is reskinning

btw, in hammer do models show up the full size/shape of what they look like? or just as the entity......cos i find in quark i cant get the positioning for the models right without having to compile and play on it about 6 times

o and.....i h8 the way u ppl can design decent layouts and i cant think even half of a decent 1 up

[Sputnik]

oooooooooo, nice models then, look better than most of the things i draw with polys make em urself?

Yup I did Because models are treated so differently to world brushes there are a number of both advantages and disadvantages in using them, but I'm going to do as much as I can and is sensible in models, although I'm not that great at making them and they take me ages

btw, in hammer do models show up the full size/shape of what they look like? or just as the entity......cos i find in quark i cant get the positioning for the models right without having to compile and play on it about 6 times

That's how you used to have to do it in Hammer too, but now the v3.5 beta shows models in the editor, which is a huge help

o and.....i h8 the way u ppl can design decent layouts and i cant think even half of a decent 1 up

I thought with cs_spent I'd try and do some planning before I started making it, and this is the file I drew (Seriously!)


Needless to say I didn't stick to it too strongly - infact the next thing I tried to look at was the layout that makes the best arena maps (dust, aztec etc) so fast and good. Which is basically a figure of eight with as few additional major routes as possible.

I think the best thing to do is to avoid trying to fill a set space with "stuff" (certainly not a great big box), but add rooms and corridors here and there and be happy to move them about, keeping in mind the type of map, the time it'll take to get from a to b and vis blocking as you go.

Not that I'm especially good at it all, but I spend ages fiddling and flying round a map (tip: listen to music so you don't feel you're wasting hours and hours doing nothing )

[Bullet]

models still count for r_speeds....but u dont have to make em out of several shapes, just faces....so some faces which would be there if it was made from polys would not be there if made from models (correct?) so thats an advantage.......also they dont "cut" other polys i assume???

whats the disadvantages......i aint used models much myself (so far out of the 3 pathetic maps ive made....have had 0 models in, but am trying to fiddle around with em a bit )

[Sputnik]

There are loads of implications of using them, they're just completely different. If you use them you need to balance w and e polies, which can let you get loads more detail in a room at no lag/fps cost if you use them right, or make r_speeds shoot through the roof if you don't, since they're more likely to cause sudden lag than the gradual increase you get with piling on w_polies.

They can look better because of the different way they're rendered, but they can also look poor - for example the lighting is even all over a model, and low-poly models are liable to be twisted, pinched and bent by the engine.

They can let you use large textures in the map without them being included in the wad or world texture memory, but it's then easy to accidentally ruin a map by having too much texture memory taken up by the models, especially as each model uses a separate space of texture memory, even if the textures used by two models is the same.

Then there's the fact that they don't clip the player, so don't take up clip nodes if that's something you're having trouble with. But you do need to put clip brushes round them if the player can walk up to them.

And you can do fancy animations and effects with models, as well as have many different permutations and occurrences of the same model file around the map with relatively little extra resource usage.

There are loads of advantages and disadvantages

[PeaceBreaker]

great map, excellent textures, but i was wondering, where do the hossies escape?

[Sputnik]

Cheers. It's moved on a little bit since, but not really as much as I'd like at all I need to try and keep tinkering but I keep finding myself being busy

The hossie escape point would be at the elevator doors (room with the water), also the CT spawn. I might put an extra one in, but probably not - just have one on each of the main entrances to this room.

[P.A.I.N 101]

Downloading now, ill get back to you...

[Sputnik]

Cool Maybe I should have uploaded a more recent version