Another "Help me choose a new system" thread !

[Wintermute]

OK, I'm finally going to biting the bullet and treating myself to a shiny new system.
I'm going to be offline all week but will probably be getting the credit card out next weekend.

So I'd really appreciate any feedback from those who know more than me about these things (approx 98% of this forums visitors !), if you've got the time and inclination to help me out.

I figure if I'm going to do it then I may as well go for the best I can stretch to, so I've been looking at the 64bit AMD processors. I also like ATI graphics cards, so the X800 has grabbed my eye, rather than the 6800.

Bearing in mind I'm looking to build/buy a full system completely from scratch I came up with these 2 for comparison.

Prebuilt System from Mesh Computers:
Looks like this.
Case: Micro ATX Mini-Tower with tool free access
Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition
Motherboard Features: ASUS K8V-MX Athlon 64 Mainboard - 1600MHz SB, 2x IEEE 1394, LAN, 2x SATA
Processor: AMD Athlon 64 3200+
Memory: Upgrade to 1024Mb PC3200 DDR (400MHz) at £100
Hard Drives: 200GB Serial ATA (150Mb/s) Ultra Fast Hard Drive
Video Card: Upgrade to 256MB ATI Radeon X800 XT - TV Out + DVI at £320
Monitor 1: 17'' TFT Flat Panel LCD Monitor (Analogue)
Optical Drives: SONY 16x Dual Layer DVD-Re-Writable +R/-R/RW
Sound: Upgrade to the new Creative Soundblaster AUDIGY 2 ZS at £35
Speakers: New Creative Labs Inspire P5800 - 5.1 Surround
Modem: 56kbps V92 Modem, featuring data and fax.
Keyboard & Mouse: Logitech Internet Keyboard & Optical Mouse (Black)
Video Editing: Pinnacle Studio 9 SE (OEM)
Software: Microsoft® Works® 8.0
Warranty: 3 Years - Parts & Labour - Back-to-Base Warranty (Mainland UK only - Terms Apply)
Delivery: Insured Del within Mainland UK (+ £39) at £39
Price Excluding VAT: £ 1088.89
Price Including VAT + DEL: £ 1279.45

Seperate Components (all from EBuyer)
I-Cute 0314TL Black Atx Case With Side Window (400w psu) (£40 inc VAT)
Microsoft Windows Xp Home SP2 OEM -Single Pack (£57 inc VAT)
Asus A8V Deluxe Socket-939 VIA/KT800Pro - ATX Sound Gb-Lan IEEE1394 USB2 800FSB WiFi Retail Box (£90 inc VAT)
Amd (winchester) Athlon 64bit 3200+ 939pin/512kb L2cache (£140 inc VAT)
Kingston 512 DDR400 PC3200 Cl3 Memory module (*2) (£120 inc VAT)
Seagate Barracuda ST3200822AS 200Gb 8Mb Cache 7200RPM - OEM (£ 82 inc VAT)
Asus ATI Radeon AX800PRO TVD 256MB DDR3, VIVO, TV-Out, DVI INC High Quality Webcam & Games Bundle Retail Box (apparently flashable to XT status i.e. 16 pipes instead of 12) (£297 inc VAT)
LG L1715S 17ins TFT 16ms 0.26mm 450:1 Charcoal & Grey with 3year onsite Warranty (£195 inc VAT)
NEC ND-3500 Double Layer Dual 16x DVD R/RW - OEM Beige (£45 inc VAT)
Creative Labs Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS 7.1 PCI Soundcard With Dts Support (£61 inc VAT)
Creative Labs Inspire T7900 7.1 Speaker System (£76 inc VAT)
Microsoft Wireless Optical Desktop PS2/USB - OEM (£27 inc VAT)
£1230 inc VAT (but not including delivery)

So my initial reaction is that for about the same amount of money you could build a better machine (no real surprise there).
Although In reality, I probably won't blow £76 on a set of 7.1 speakers that will get rarely used, but the comparison stands; and similarly I may get some cheaper alternatives to the above for some things.
(a lot of of the Ebuyer stuff I just picked from reviews)

Now my biggest problem is that whilst I know a bit about the various components, I'm sure you guys know more (e.g. I haven't a clue about the DVD RW drive but it got good reviews).
Similarly, I have no idea whether the case is any good or if the PSU/Cooling would be sufficient (I suspect not).

So if you know a bit about any of the components and think the money would be better spent on an alternative/cheaper/better/more reliable, or specifically, more 'future-proof' version then please let me know.

Also, I realise there's always something better just around the corner, but I'm keen to buy soon. Bearing this in mind, I'd appreciate pointers on the above technology compared to anything available now or in the not-too-distant future.

Any comments very much appreciated before I take the plunge !

Cheers

[Bob_The_Engineer]

ALDI deal - Thursday ... £700 comes with 16x DVD writer - Nvidea card ... 1/2 Gig 3200, 200gb HDD, no monitor.

Fantastic deal, as my 'faster than all your machines' at the time MadOnion results showed.

Just don't let your kid piss on the monitor. (Sorry Rehab).

[aZZ]

Obviously your main concern is the whole AGP/PCI-e situation.

I was in the same situation a few weeks ago but, like you, also needed to buy something good that was 'out now' so had no choice but to go AGP.

Putting the whole shall-I-wait-for-nForce4 debate behind us I wanted an ultimate HL2 gaming rig that performed well without overclocking but still had a little headroom for clocking it up in the future.

I decided to go for the nvidia route as opposed to the also-good VIA chipset as the tried and test Neo2 from MSI proved a solid performer at stock rates across several magazine reviews I've read (they 0.5x overclocked on the FSB I hear but lets ignore that for now

I can thoroughly recommend the 64 bit route. After seeing Oopseh's impressive 3dmark scores with his Newcastle 3400+ I knew he must be beaten. You NEED to go for the 939 pin route as 754's are being phased out (bad luck Oops:) plus you receive a speedy dual chan memory controller to boot.

My CPU does get very warm at idle but AMD's Cool and Silent technology is meant to down-clock the CPU multiplier when it's no need so to run more efficiently (haven't fiddled with this yet).

Air cooling with a Coolermaster Hyper 6 and 2xs80mm fans it idles around 47 degrees and peaks mid to high 50's under load in a warm room. It sounds worrying I know but it's rock solid stable and hasn't crashed once. The Winchester's 90nm should do a better job than mine here.

With the exception of the FX range, the 939's can only have their multipliers DOWN-clocked only (to accompany their C&S feature I guess) so if you're looking at overclocking the choice of RAM is very important as you're forced to tweak the FSB/HTB to produce more speed. Due to the nature of their excellent memory controller RAM latency is far more important than with Intel's P4. With this in mind I went for the super speedy Corsair pc3200 XMS PRO range (2x matched 2-2-2-5). Even though it's only 3200 I've heard stories of people reaching pc3700 speeds+ (more than enough for a A64) and the ultra low latency really pulls in the benchmark scores.



X800..? Ah a man after my own heart. I love my X800 (AGP). Just completed HL2 running in 1600x1200 2x AA (almost pointless imo at this res) and 8x AF. Didn't drop a frame once although I must admit I didn't benchmark for single player. I've benchmarked it at the same res but no AA for CS:S and the stress test reports a little over 100fps average with in game fps ranging from 170 to 85+ peaks. The main problem you'll find is availability here. I put in an order with Komplett.co.uk for an ASUS X800 XT PE but they kept putting the dates back. First 2 weeks, then 3 weeks then a month... I told them to poke it then went to Overclockers. They, again couldn't confirm a firm availability date. I monitored their website constantly and by shear fluke spotted 1 available PowerColor X800 XT PE. I called them and managed to jump the waiting list. Financially if you're willing to go X800 I recommend you go for the XT PE or the very slightly slower XT but if you're spending that much dosh you'll want the best you're willing to wait for. The PRO is also a solid performer and will bury an 6800 Ultra in HL2/CSS but the 12 pipes might put you off next to the XT's 16. Plus it's only about £30 difference. However the PRO's are much easier to get your hands on so you may find yourself going for this baby. Oops installed his the weekend and is pleased with it from what I've heard. It'll knockout about double the fps of HL2 of the mighty 9800 XT (no slouch itself)



My final system is
K8N Neo2 Platinum
AMD Athlon 64 FX-55 (2.6ghz is HOT)
PowerColor X800 XT PE (remember CS:CZ is free with HL2 Silver!)
OCZ Powerstrem 520w PSU
Corsair TWINX 1024-3200XL PRO (2x512mb 2-2-2-5 timings at SPD)
CoolerMaster Hyper6 CPU Cooler (might want to try a T.R XP120 if it fits?)

here's some links that helped me with my decision making...

Reviews:
ASUS X800 review
Hyper6 review
Socket 939 mobo roundup

Benchmarks:

CPU comparisons
GFX card comparisons
HL2 performance comparisons

Also this looks good
GFX card buyers' guide

Hope this helps

[[GF5]Binky]

*yawn*

[Urb]

.....and u still suck as cs azz?

[aZZ]

Doesn't get boring binks

How are those frames holding up Urb?

The airboat scene is much more fun when it animates

[[GF5]Binky]

LOL

I always wondered why they called him, "flickbook Kev"

[aZZ]

Nope that's a completely unrelated story and something that should be saved for adult-only forums.

You have anything useful to add to Winter's prob? No? OK lets continue slating Urby. It's all good

[Urb]

Frames are fine, 40+, just the occasional gfx stutter.. but then again, I'm not gonna go spend over £1000 on a new pc for one game..

[Bullet]

Frames are fine, 40+, just the occasional gfx stutter.. but then again, I'm not gonna go spend over £1000 on a new pc for one game..

nope you'll do it for one old game (CS)

[DE-G@vnor]

you have too much money Winter.

One thing I will say RE: PCI-Express is that if you are not a graphics junky it really isnt worth it.

The only feasible advantage it gives at this time is the SLI feature. The bandwith that 8xAGP provides isnt currently used by ANY cards on the market and for the forseeable future (think most cards utilise about 10% of the extra bandwith 8x provides over 4x).

And to the guy who reads Toms Hardware - dont bother - the site is OWNED , if you want accurate hardware reviews I'm afraid that the web is not your friend anymore - even anandtech is going downhill now.

[Woz]

Hey Winter and the AI household - have a look at Aldi this week.
Thursday is when they have another PC deal on - and looking at the specs it's going to be another stonking machine for the money.

http://uk.aldi.com/

[aZZ]

hmm is this part of the package? Sounds a good deal

[Bob_The_Engineer]

Hey Winter and the AI household - have a look at Aldi this week.
Thursday is when they have another PC deal on - and looking at the specs it's going to be another stonking machine for the money.

http://uk.aldi.com/

And yet

ALDI deal - Thursday ... £700 comes with 16x DVD writer - Nvidea card ... 1/2 Gig 3200, 200gb HDD, no monitor.

Fantastic deal, as my 'faster than all your machines' at the time MadOnion results showed.

Just don't let your kid piss on the monitor.

[Woz]

erm....I posted a link as well.
Also - you smell.

[Rascal]

am almost 98% sure I'm gonna get this.

http://www.whispercomputers.com/gaming/ ... ystems.htm

bottom one, although now seeing your comparisons it seems overpriced as both of yours have a TFT and a better graphics card for much the same price. Although according to a big thread on the mother forums the 6800le can be overclocked to quite enormous levels, for what seems even to a joey like me not a lot of effort.

Apparently the sites, going to have a configure your own PC on it within the next week. Despite your comparisons, still think I'm going to get this though as If I don't stop ummming and ahhing soon, I'm gonna do me nut.

[DE-G@vnor]

that pc is a proper bargain

[-ReHaB-]

Just don't let your kid piss on the monitor. (Sorry Rehab).

??? no kids been pissing on my monitors. are you talking about Waz...sorry Woz?

[Bob_The_Engineer]

Just don't let your kid piss on the monitor. (Sorry Rehab).

??? no kids been pissing on my monitors. are you talking about Waz...sorry Woz?

No I was alluding to your being Winter's brother-in-law. Or have I got it wrong again.

[jamie]

You mean subdude?